Mechanical Engineering
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# What is the torque output force of this machine?

## Question

The machine uses the combined lifting force of a number of balloons tied together creating a combined lifting force.

In this example there are 30 balloons, 15 moving up and 15 on the way down.

The lowest balloon is injected with 40,000 cubic feet of air compressed down to 2,666 cubic feet. As the balloon rises it expands displacing more water creating more lifting force. The combined lifting force of the 15 balloons on the right side creates a combined lifting force of 118,428 pounds.

The air in the balloons on the left side is released at the top and empty balloons move down to be refilled with air at the bottom to continue the cycle.

The term “balloon” is a simplified version of a large, inverted umbrella of sorts.

The object here is to determine if the energy used to keep the machine running is more or less than the energy output.

NOTE: What is required to keep the machine running is to fill the lowest balloon with air.

Any comments, pro or con are welcome, but a detailed explanation is required.

A no, it will not work falls short.

open drawing with "paint"

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people, take a stand on this...kjhhjhjkjk

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Since you are too old to care, you are evidently also too old to communicate clearly. You really need a figure to describe your problem, and without it, no one is likely to answer.

DrD

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On 8/18/2021 at 11:00 AM, DrD said:

Since you are too old to care, you are evidently also too old to communicate clearly.

My problem is, I am not even sure what it is I am trying to communicate.

The sketch provided is a mechanical drawing of a proposed energy gathering machine. The energy source that keeps the machine running is the lifting force of ten (10) rising balloons all tied together creating a combined torque force of (X).

To keep the machine producing (X) torque over (Y) time requires (Z) energy.

[(X)x(Y)] = energy output

The balloons are 33 feet apart. Air bubbles under water rise at 3 (three) feet per second. The time it will require a bubble from one atmosphere to the next is (33/3) = 11 seconds.

The energy needed to sustain the machine is the energy used to fill the lower balloon ever 11 seconds “assuming” a rising speed of 3 feet per second.

To me it is like a puzzle to solve.

I posted it here; hoping it would create a conversation over the technical properties of the machine. Air underwater has a powerful lifting force. One cubic feet of water, underwater has a lifting force of 67 pounds.

Bla, blab la, I posted it here because I wanted to share the idea with others.

No one is obligated to participate.

On 8/18/2021 at 11:00 AM, DrD said:

You really need a figure to describe your problem, and without it, no one is likely to answer.

My problem is, I am not even sure what it is I am trying to communicate.

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On 8/18/2021 at 11:00 AM, DrD said:

Since you are too old to care, you are evidently also too old to communicate clearly. You really need a figure to describe your problem, and without it, no one is likely to answer.

DrD

I am trying to communicate.

Hello !!

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On 8/18/2021 at 11:00 AM, DrD said:

Since you are too old to care, you are evidently also too old to communicate clearly. You really need a figure to describe your problem, and without it, no one is likely to answer.

DrD

I am still waiting on your comments on the design of the SeaEngine.

Some have said it is a perpetual motion machine but could not provide and technical reason to support their claim.

I have provided technical details and yet no credible replies.

Still waiting

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I think the best option is to ask "what sort of buoyancy force could this generate....?"

The buoyancy gives the force the speed of which would be limited hydrodynamically - basically by the speed of the bubbles rising.

Asking "Torque" is not really helpful as this will depend entirely on the size of the cog used to drive the unit. Basically Torque is Force x distance. You need to first know the force and the systems can be modified for the torque sought....the speed you have already calculated.

You have done most of the work on this....the buoyancy is identical to "The sum of" "the volume of the bubbles x the mass of water x g"; you have already calculated these at various depths: Basically, calculate the volumes, add them up and multiply by 1000kgm^-3 and then 9.81ms^-2 (Metric). This would calculate down and cancel to give "kg m s^-2" - which is Newtons - the fundamental unit of force in SI units.

I apologise, we have communed on this in the past, I just haven't had the time to look into this in detail, and time I would need. I confess to being a "Metric only" guy, which basically means I'd have to spend the time recalculating everything to make head nor tail of it and verify your original calcs (which I would not convert, but redo to check).

[Have to confess - I took your name, "tooldtocare" as being "tool'd to care"....I guess I must be a cup half full guy!🤣]

Hope this helps

Bruce

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If Mr. Reid wants to work with you, you better take him up on it. I suggest that all others are going to ask for a drawing  as that is the standard way for engineers to communicate. Who knows? It might even clarify your own thinking.

DrD

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On 9/2/2021 at 3:46 AM, DrD said:

If Mr. Reid wants to work with you, you better take him up on it. I suggest that all others are going to ask for a drawing  as that is the standard way for engineers to communicate. Who knows? It might even clarify your own thinking.

DrD

As I said in my post, I have discussed this and had the detail in the "Seapower" sketches expanded on in the past, so I understand where the diagram is coming from and the idea itself...it is a little "unclear" from the above but the concept IS the "Seapower" diagram, the umbrella, a potential drive facilitator for the bubbles.

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Posted (edited)
On 9/4/2021 at 5:44 AM, G B Reid MIMechE, SIMarEST said:

As I said in my post, I have discussed this and had the detail in the "Seapower" sketches expanded on in the past, so I understand where the diagram is coming from and the idea itself...it is a little "unclear" from the above but the concept IS the "Seapower" diagram, the umbrella, a potential drive facilitator for the bubbles.

It is not a perpetual motion machine.

To run, it requires supplying air to continue to run.

A car is a perpetual motion machine until it runs out of gas.

Posted August 31

BY: Bruce

I think the best option is to ask "what sort of buoyancy force could this generate....?"

The buoyancy gives the force the speed of which would be limited hydrodynamically - basically by the speed of the bubbles rising.

Asking "Torque" is not really helpful as this will depend entirely on the size of the cog usedPosted August 31
BY: Bruce
I think the best option is to ask "what sort of buoyancy force could this generate....?"
The buoyancy gives the force the speed of which would be limited hydrodynamically - basically by the speed of the bubbles rising.
Asking "Torque" is not really helpful as this will depend entirely on the size of the cog used to drive the unit. Basically Torque is Force x distance. You need to first know the force and the systems can be modified for the torque sought....the speed you have already calculated.
You have done most of the work on this....the buoyancy is identical to "The sum of" "the volume of the bubbles x the mass of water x g"; you have already calculated these at various depths: Basically, calculate the volumes, add them up and multiply by 1000kgm^-3 and then 9.81ms^-2 (Metric). This would calculate down and cancel to give "kg m s^-2" - which is Newtons - the fundamental unit of force in SI units.
I apologise, we have communed on this in the past, I just haven't had the time to look into this in detail, and time I would need. I confess to being a "Metric only" guy, which basically means I'd have to spend the time recalculating everything to make head nor tail of it and verify your original calcs (which I would not convert, but redo to check).
[Have to confess - I took your name, "tooldtocare" as being "tool'd to care"....I guess I must be a cup half full guy!🤣]
Hope this helps
Bruce
https://tinyurl.com/mrrx8u8f

to drive the unit. Basically Torque

A contributing idea from another side (:-

is Force x distance. You need to first know the force and the systems can be modified for the torque sought....the speed you have already calculated.

You have done most of the work on this....the buoyancy is identical to "The sum of" "the volume of the bubbles x the mass of water x g"; you have already calculated these at various depths: Basically, calculate the volumes, add them up and multiply by 1000kgm^-3 and then 9.81ms^-2 (Metric). This would calculate down and cancel to give "kg m s^-2" - which is Newtons - the fundamental unit of force in SI units.

I apologise, we have communed on this in the past, I just haven't had the time to look into this in detail, and time I would need. I confess to being a "Metric only" guy, which basically means I'd have to spend the time recalculating everything to make head nor tail of it and verify your original calcs (which I would not convert, but redo to check).

[Have to confess - I took your name, "tooldtocare" as being "tool'd to care"....I guess I must be a cup half full guy!🤣]

Hope this helps

Bruce

Edited by james dyson
trying to lower the text size
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To answer the question you need a diagram or drawing of the machine.

I have produced it before, here I will do it again.

Just keep in mind that this design could be scaled down by 50% and still produce useful work.

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